11-03-2012 01:49 AM
FIRST, I've read through both threads related to the chirping noise. And I've been familiar with this issue from basically the beginning.
SECOND, I have had one of these drives for about 6 months or so (I'm guessing), and I read the original thread back then because I was experiencing the chirping noise like everyone else, but seeing no firm resolution from Seagate (at that time) I just put up with it - it has not stopped since then.
THIRD, A few weeks ago I bought some additional Seagate 3Tb hard drives. One was the Barracuda 3T (internal) and two more were the External 3Tb Seagate Backup Plus versions (noteably cheaper than the bare internal drives - and hey they came with a SATA/USB3 interface kit !!).
These were intended to support my plans in building a 4x 3TB drive based RAID. Upon building the raid with the 4 drives I could no longer ignore the numerious chirping sounds that resulted. (it was slighly quieter than a birds nest : ) One by one I identified which drives were making the chirping sounds.
Model - F/W - Country of Origin - Site of Origin - Date of Manufacture - Chirp Defect Present?
ST3000DM001-9YN166-570 - CC9E - China - WU - 05/12 - YES, IT CHIRPS
ST3000DM001-9YN166-302 - CC4C - China - SU - 01/12 - YES, IT CHIRPS (Fixed with f/w CC4H)
ST3000DM001-9YN166-302 - CC4C - China - SU - 05/12 - YES, IT CHIRPS (Fixed with f/w CC4H)
ST3000DM001-9YN166-570 - CC9E - China - WU - 06/12 - NO, DOESN'T CHIRP
FOURTH, upon revisting the forums today I've noticed that there was a firmware update (the CC4H version) put out by seagate (a.k.a Alan) which applied to certain firmwares but not all firmwares for the ST3000DM001 models (and maybe other 2Tb models of which I have no interest).
So, I updated the firmware on the first of the internal drives from CC4C to CC4H with the firmware update that Alan graciously provided on the previous thread. I have to say it was quite successful. Whereas previously I could get the chirp to occur regularly on startup after writing to the hard drive and giving it a rest, now following the same process, the chirp does not occur - only a normal hard drive head movement sound is detectable for the drive -- which is very acceptable and quite normal.
FINALLY, the problem is though that the chirp is still occuring on one of the external (fw ver. CC9E) drives and there is no similar firmware upgrade to do the same fix for these drives. Which brings me to my final point.
SO, Where is Alan now? He has gotten us further than anyone else in getting this issue resolved but I haven't seen him on the forum recently. I've seen where others have posted requests for an upgraded firmware for the various CC9X versions of firmware to fix the problem but there has not been a similar answer with a new firmware upgrade.
I have not sent serial numbers in to Alan but is that still necessary? Isn't the problem now understood? Or are we dealing with point solutions? It is certainly the same crashing sound (resolved with the CC4H f/w)
Tolerances eh? hmmmm so hypothetically speaking if it was a tolerance that was "not optimal" for any given set "or batch" of serial numbers, would that mean that the f/w Alan supplied was "tailored" and not applicable to drives with f/w CC9x?
I guess I'm just wondering if/why a similar fix isn't issued which can be loaded into the latest sets of firmwares where drives apparently still have the problem (i.e. CC9E in my case)
It would be really nice if we could have a CC9D/E f/w version update available to fix this issue!! Especially since it appears fixable through a firmware update.
It would also be really nice if someone from Seagate could confirm that turning off the APM will not ruin/stress the hard drive. It is not comforting to know that the cycle counts are much higher but the warrenty period on the drives has been lessened - all in the name of saving a couple of Watts!!!!
If that's the way Seagate going to design the system then they should make it available to be turned off at the user's option. I will have to keep that in mind in my future purchases if all manufacturer's are going to the same design criteria (uping cycle rates and lowering the warrenty periods) in their hard drive models when incorporating APM. I will need to select drives where it can be turned off safely.
One additional thought occured to me as I was "catching up" on the forums. I noticed that there were still a couple people who say that their drives still made a chirp sound after upgrading succesfully to CC4H. I'd like to prompt those people with a question: Have you turned off the hard drive sleep feature in O/S and/or BIOS? I'm wondering if maybe the chirp is still occuring when an external control (i.e. the O/S) puts the HD to sleep? Check your power saving settings as they apply to the HD in your O/S. Just a thought to try. I've noticed that even though the chirp is basically fixed with CC4H on those drives upgradeable to that firmware, the drives will still make a small (about 1/10 the volume) crash when power is removed on shutdown.
11-10-2012 09:19 AM
UPDATE: A week after updating the firmware on one of the CC4C drives (the one manufactured in May of 2012) it began to continuously make crashing/scraping noises during every drive access. Performing the Long Generic test in Seatools for DOS reports that it is finding errors on the drive, tries to repair the errors but then repeatedly refinds the errors again on retest. Therefore I'm going to return this one under warranty.
11-10-2012 06:41 PM
Have bought three new ST2000DM001-1CH164 (fw CC43) a two weeks ago. All they are chirping, and there is no fw update for that serial numbers. Drives are little different (one is 2 platters, W1xxxxxx serial and 520+ gram weight, two are 3 platters, W2xxxxxx serials and 620+ g weight). I've disabled APM and chirping stopped, LCC stops rising too...
But there's still no reaction from official Seagate, seriously? They are kidding? These drives will dead after a 300000 LCC according to Seagate specs, something around two years of life. How many people know about this effect of 'chirping'? About this forum? How many of them are aware of APM disabling 'solution' (it isn't a solution at all, just a workaround with unpredictable effects in long perspective)?
Seagate was released 'fixing' firmware that just hiding out sounds from us? It's seems to be a bad joke from them, they are just try to fool us? I can't believe that this is happened to such company! I've used their HDDs over decades, from end of 1980s, without any such problems. What's wrong with this manufacturer now?
AlanM, or anyone else of Seagate, can you help us with this situation? Or we just need to RMA this 7200.14 barracudas and go for something else, constellation for example, or WD/Hitachi at all?
I'm very frustrated with such Seagate ignore.
11-14-2012 10:59 AM - last edited on 11-14-2012 04:27 PM by MrMatthew
@MangaMan - great investigation! A lot more precise than seagate's answers.
@pekmop1024 it's frustrating but Seagate left us out in the rain.Exchange your chirping drives twith something more reliable.
I'm a lot frustrated about Segate's attitude. Other manufacturers ran into similar issues but solved the problem (I know WD did, after a freeware utility, hand coded, appeared in the wild that disabled APM on their drives.
[Legal Discussion Removed]
11-14-2012 12:59 PM
I suggest disabling APM as most disks do not support it anyway in my shop
it seems to be at issue with windows but I have not tested LInux on my newer disks yet
11-15-2012 07:05 AM
Great. The only way to attract the attention of a mod is to mention some legal action.
I will keep the discussion going here, for the people seeking for advice, but will move over to storagereview and some online tec sites to comment Seagates attitudes.
It's really a shame.
11-15-2012 07:08 AM
Great. The only way to attract the attention of a mod is to mention some legal action.
Well, no, it's not the only way, but it's one way. Other ways include private messaging a mod. We can't really read through everything that happens everywhere in this community. I'm sorry about that, but it's just one of those things. The way it is.
You know, you're welcome to keep the discussion going here. If you want to move to another forum so as to try to drum up support for some sort of legal action, I guess that's your prerogative.
Have you contacted Seagate Support and asked them about this issue? If you already said you did, I apologise; it's hard to read through all these pages.
11-15-2012 07:34 AM
this thread is tif the first position, top of the list, so it's not easy to oversee.
And you're aware of what's going on here, you helped already some pages back ;-)
But back to the topic:
No, i could not contact with Seagate customer support:
1. I bought the two OEM drives in a QNAP/FUJITSU NAS, so they are responsible (QNAP stopped already selling NAS with those disks)
2. if you read the thread, the people who RMA'ed the HDDs received in exchange same drives with the same problem
3. the "chirping" is a result of a "feature", the power management,and it's not seen as an issue
4. this issue could be resolved with a correct firmware update, so the ball is back to Seagate
The central question is still unanswered:
Will this "feature" shorten the life expectancy of our disks?
Unfortunately I live in a country were class actions aren't part of the legal system so no, I'm not "drumming" up support to start something against Seagate.
I just want to have a better customer service and the impression that Seagate actually cares about the quality of their products and customer satisfaction and not only about their market share (besides, the two things are linked).
But maybe somebody in another country will remember ibm's deskstar "deathstar" issues and the way it ended (basically IBM payed for every HDD they sold).
But maybe Seagate dosn't care about reputation, and maybe I have to seek for an answer elsewhere, like @ storagereview, tomshardware, anandtech, newegg, amazon, pixmania... you name it.
Here I feel left out in the rain.
11-15-2012 01:29 PM
I agree with portomomo, the lack of any definite response does not inspire confidence.
The only action so far was the release of new firmware that apparently doesn't even stop the problem.
What I would like to know is:
1) How many people actually have this problem (I know this is probably not possible to answer directly) - but - this thread might be long but if you add up the number of individuals who reported this problem, I doubt it's more than 100 or so. If they are the only ones with the problem, then it's a very small portion of drives, and thus must be an abnormality.
However - why would Seagate release a firmware upgrade for all these drives to fix an abnormality? So we can assume all the drives do this 'chirp' but most people don't notice or don't care.
2) It is reported on this forum that the firmware update does not actually stop the chirping and underlying head parking issue - Why not? Since users have reporting being able to disable it in software, it is clearly possible.
Is the reason for this that Seagate feels disabling it completely is a bad idea? If so, why?
Is it the lesser of two evils? Do the drives have some underlying design fault, and disabling the chirping by disabling APM in software going to impact the drive's life more than leaving it enabled?
If this is true, and there is a design fault or problem that no software can fix, why does Seagate not just admit to this? If they try to keep it quiet, the end result may well be the same as the IBM Deskstar scenario, or worse.
To my mind however, this seems unlikely, that it's more than Seagate don't want to for other reasons (or maybe due to limited firmware space can't) turn off the feature in firmware.
But if this is the case, if disabling the 'feature' via disabling APM via 3rd party software is not an issue - why is there no official repsonse from Seagate saying that this is OK to do?
Why so much dancing around the issue, no straight answers, just a firmware update that appears to do nothing?
11-21-2012 09:14 AM - edited 11-21-2012 09:16 AM
Been away for a few months... has the excessive heard parking / chirping issue been fixed? Based on the last few points, it seems that Seagate has issue a firmware update that reduces the chirping sound (that does not seem to work for every drive)... but it also appears that the underlying excessive head parking issue has not been fixed?
All I want to know is can the excessive head parking be stopped permanently? I'm not looking for a software fix, but a firmware fix. Has it been done by Seagate yet?